Dr. Yang Jianli on Charter 08
|
|||||||||
|
DEFENSE FORUM FOUNDATION PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE: WELCOME AND MODERATOR: SPEAKER: FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 2009 Transcript by SUZANNE SCHOLTE: Good afternoon. If I could have your attention. I’m Suzanne Scholte, president of the Defense Forum Foundation, and I want to thank you all very much for joining us today for this very timely and critical forum on Charter 08. And before I introduce our speaker, I just want to acknowledge a couple of special guests that are in the audience – Bill Gertz, best-selling author and defense and national security reporter for the Washington Times. Bill’s here. Jim Geheran, who is the director of International Programs for Initiatives for China, who helped make today’s forum possible. He’s been our liaison with Dr. Yang and was tremendously helpful in helping for the planning of today’s event. Also I see Ed Borchert with the Korean War Memorial Foundation right over here, and Karl Altau with the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, and next to him Bob Thompson with the Coalitions for America. Thanks for joining us. (Applause.) I also want to acknowledge, from the board of directors of the Defense Forum Foundation, Ambassador Frank Ruddy is here. (Applause.) And Henry Song, our director of grants and projects right here behind the camera. (Applause.) And then finally I want to call on Ed Priola, who is with the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who has a special statement that he would like to read. ED PRIOLA: Thank you, Suzanne. Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Ed Priola. I’m with the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, and I’d like to read a statement from our chairman, Dr. Lee Edwards. “Dear friends, please accept my profound regrets for not being with you personally today. Understand, though, that my heart is fully with you and your refection on the immense importance of Charter 08. The impact of Charter 08 affirms the timeless power of ideas among free peoples. It also serves to establish the swiftly emerging capacity of the Internet to spread them. It is unquestionably a tribute to the courage of the thousands of people who have added their names, at great personal risk, to a petition that simply calls for an end to one-party authoritarian rule, lays out a vision of a right space society and electoral democracy under the rule of law with equality for all. “I’m reminded that five years ago I was invited by the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party to visit China and give a series of lectures about American conservatism. I spoke at the People’s University in Beijing and Fudan University in Shanghai. During my presentation I stressed that good relations between America and China would depend on a foundation of truth and historical fact. I refer the Great Leap Forward and the millions of Chinese who died because of Mao Zedong’s radical collectivist schemes. I talked about the Cultural Revolution and the unleashing of the Red Guards. My host agreed that serious mistakes had been made and that Mao was guilty of poor leadership. But when I brought up Tiananmen Square and the 1989 massacre, there was silence and frozen faces. I said that until they were willing to talk about Tiananmen Square as candidly and openly as they did about the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, relations between our two countries would be unstable and conflicted. “The truth about communism must be told. Charter 08 insists upon telling the truth about communism. That too is the mission of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation: to educate this generation and future generations about the history, philosophy and legacy of communism. That is why we fully embrace the hope embodied in the brave signatories of Charter 08, and that is why freedom-loving people everywhere, worldwide, must continue to speak out on human rights and the basic human liberties. We cannot, we must not, we will not forget those who continue to live, and not by their choice, under the tyranny of Communism. “Sincerely yours, Dr. Lee Edwards, chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Society.” (Applause.) (Applause.) MS. SCHOLTE: Now it’s my great honor and pleasure to introduce to you Dr. Yang Jianli, who was born in Northern China and a graduate of Beijing Normal University. He holds a Ph.D. in mathematics from the University of California Berkeley and a Ph.D. in political economy from Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government. In 1989, at the age of 26, his fellow graduates at Berkeley selected him to go to Beijing to be with their counterparts who were demonstrating for democracy in Tiananmen Square. He arrived in Tiananmen Square in time to witness the massacre of thousands of peaceful demonstrators by the guns and tanks of the Chinese government. And this event fundamentally, as you can well imagine, changed his life as he narrowly escaped, and he returned to the United States, where he committed himself to studying democracy. In 2002, Dr. Yang returned to China where he was studying the growing labor unrest in Northern China, but he was arrested and held incommunicado for over a year before he was tried, convicted and sentenced to five years imprisonment for espionage. While he was in prison, he was tortured and put in solitary confinement for long periods. And remarkably, during the solitary confinement he composed and committed to memory many poems, and published a book on how China could achieve a peaceful transition to democracy. Following the international outcry because of his imprisonment, which included a U.N. resolution and a unanimous vote of both houses of the United States Congress calling for his freedom, Dr. Yang was finally freed in April of 2007. Since his release, Dr. Yang has repeatedly emphasized that he would probably still be in prison today if it were not for the support of the American people, and he firmly believes that the peaceful transition to democracy in China is dependent upon the U.S. leadership holding China accountable for respecting the human and political rights of its citizens. So I think it’s really important to point these things out because so many of you are leaders in the Congress, and what the impact that you had in helping Dr. Yang. Dr. Yang is also the recipient of numerous awards. He is widely recognized as a leading voice and visionary among human rights and democracy advocates. He is the founder of the Foundation for China in the 21st Century, a co-author of “A Constitution for a Democratic China,” and is the founder and president of initiatives for China, whose mission is to empower the citizens of China by sowing the seeds of hope and giving voice to their struggles for a peaceful transition to democracy. It’s a great honor and pleasure to introduce Dr. Yang to speak with us about the significance of Charter 08. (Applause.) YANG JIANLI: Thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you, Suzanne Scholte, for inviting me to speak today here. I’m greatly honored. And I thank you, Ed, for sharing with us Dr. Edwards’ letter. And I applaud Dr. Edwards and everyone associated with The Victims of Communism Memorial for their vision and fortitude in making this monument a reality I also thank everyone here, particularly the hard-working staff from Congress and the executive departments for taking the time to come to this luncheon. I will do my best to give you some good food for thought that will assist you with the difficult work you have in turning information into effective legislation and policy. I will talk about three things this afternoon: number one, the importance of the struggle for democracy in China to the long-term strategic interests of the United States and the world; number two, the three conditions that must be present at the same time to effect a political change in a country like China; number three, the specific foreign policies options Charter 08 presents for achieving an open, stable democratic China. Regretfully, I was not here for last month’s forum. I understand that Bill Gertz gave a very cogent summary of the security challenges facing the Obama administration. Bill observed that China’s military buildup, coupled to a dictatorship that is not in any way accountable to its people, can be perceived as a growing challenge to American security. I would add to Bill’s observations that China’s emergence as an economic as well as military power poses the very real question of whether the Chinese government motto of a one-party dictatorship without rule of law and protection of individual rights will become the model for the world in this new millennium. The very real question for us is, will China be integrated into the world community or will China integrate the world community within its system? I urge everyone in this room to reflect on where the Chinese dictatorship was 20 years ago in 1989. It was on the brink of a collapse. It was unthinkable then for everyone, including the then-leaders of China, that its brand of communism would be considered by so many people in the world today as a challenge to the American model for the rest of the world. Her remarks demoralize the Chinese activists and protestors, many of whom had gathered at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing for her visit to seek her support. The Chinese government can only read Secretary Clinton’s remarks as giving it a free hand to exercise their arbitrary rule. The world can only see this as the rise of the Chinese political system over the weak U.S. model. As a result, I can only see greater repression of the Chinese citizens in the future and bold actions by the Chinese government in the world arena. On the inconsistency and compromise on human rights arenas, again I ask you to think where the Chinese government was nearly 20 years ago. Look at where China is today. I hold up Charter 08, a virtual world map for peaceful transition to democracy in China, which Secretary Clinton has chosen to ignore. What cost our re-chartering this manifest? If this continues, think about where the Chinese model will be 20 years from now. Will our silence on human rights eventually come back to silence us here in America? Can we hear the future secretary of state say, we cannot let First Amendment stand in the way of a harmonious society and economic progress? So Bill Gertz’ conclusion that the best solution for the challenge China presents to our security and our democratic way of life is that China has a peaceful transition to democracy. I will add to this by saying that a peaceful transition to democracy in China is not only the best outcome for America, but also the best one for China, and for world peace as well. If a peaceful transition to a democratic form of governance in China is the optimum solution for removing this challenge to our American security, it then follows that advancing human rights and supporting democratic forces within China must be a vital, integral and fundamental basis of our bilateral relations with the Chinese government. It is counterproductive to compartmentalize human rights and the democratic reform in our discussions with China. We cannot make progress on this issue so vital to our security by raising it only very so often when the wind is blowing just right. Human rights and democratic reform must be the platform upon which all other issues are based. This brings us to the topic at hand: What are the options for American foreign policy in constructively assisting the peaceful transition to democracy in China, and what role does Charter 08 play in this transition? In China, or any other country, three conditions must be present at the same time for a peaceful transition to democracy to occur: a viable opposition, a crisis, and international support. A hundred years ago China experienced a serious political crisis and that also enjoyed a viable democratic opposition, led by Dr. Sun Yat-sen. Unfortunately, there was no international support. This caused Dr. Sun to turn to Lenin in 1970, a fateful and a disastrous turn of events for China and the world. Many of us in this room vividly recall the pro-democracy movement of 1989. A viable opposition had formed and a crisis was clear and present. One minute students and sympathizers gathered around the Goddess of Democracy’s statue, erected in the middle of Tiananmen Square. The likeness of this statue adorns the Victims of Communism Memorial here on Massachusetts Avenue. In addition, numerous small demonstrations were erupting in cities across China. Again, the third component, the international support needed, failed to materialize. We can easily draw from these two examples an understanding of how the three conditions of a viable opposition, a crisis and the international support must interplay for our desired outcome of a peaceful transition to democracy. International pressure in and of itself cannot and should not bring about democracy. The desire for democracy must come from the hearts of China’s citizens. This desire must be distilled into a viable opposition that is distinctly and undeniably home-grown, but as we have seen from the above two examples, international support provides the critical counterweight which steers the outcome in the right direction. The lack of international support proved tragic for our countrymen in 1989, but on the positive side, the wonderfully orchestrated support of the Western world and in particular of Pope John Paul provided the final notch that brought the sweet collapse of the communist regime in Poland, and it gave the burst of democracy there. Then what significance is Charter 08 bringing to make up the three conditions I have just elaborated? Charter 08 has three significant attributes. First is its authorship. It is 100-percent homegrown with an impeccable pedigree. The original 303 signatories are all widely known and respected citizens of China. In addition to the original signatories, almost 9,000 Chinese citizens have affixed their real names to Charter 08. This number should not be underestimated. How many of us in this room would have signed such a petition with the full knowledge that in so doing we are putting our jobs or even freedoms at risk? This fact renders moot any contention by the CCP that Charter 08 is the rumbling of subversives or the work of outside agitators. It also renders as absurd that the assertion that the desire for freedom and democracy really does not exist in China. The second important fact about Charter 08 is that it is a clear and a detailed roadmap for achieving the goal of peaceful transition to democracy. It is a cogent and effectual description of the problems as well as a solution. I quote from the opening remarks of Charter 08. “The Chinese people, who have endured human rights disasters and uncountable struggles, now see clearly that freedom, equality and human rights are universal values of humankind and that democracy and the constitution of government are the fundamental framework for protecting these values. By departing from these values, the Chinese government’s approach to modernization has proven disastrous. It has stripped people of their rights, destroyed their dignity, and corrupted normal human intercourse” – end of quote. Charter 08 goes beyond describing the situation. It details 19 specific recommendations for peaceful constitutional reform. So Charter 08 is not only a homegrown equivocal call for democratic reform; it is also a roadmap for achieving that reform. It is the basis for discussion and a dialogue with the CCP regime. And, lastly, because it is homegrown and because it has attracted such widespread endorsement, Charter 08 is now a catalyst for the formation of a viable opposition. Remember that a viable opposition is the first condition for democracy to take hold. There now exists a body politic of almost 9,000 people who have gathered around the common principle for forming a democratic alternative to the current one-party dictatorship. And I assure you that the number is growing every day and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Not since 1989 have the forces of democracy so visibly formed inside China. It is therefore not surprising that the communist government has reacted so swiftly by arresting Liu Xiaobo, putting numerous others under city arrest, intimidating almost everyone involved, and desperately attempting to remove any trace of Charter 08 from the Internet. The CCP knows all too well that this is the most fearful of organized viable opposition, one of the conditions for the peaceful transition to democracy: a crisis. The second condition for democratic reform is also taking shape. Virtually, the only support of propping up the Chinese government is its claim of creating economic prosperity. This support is rapidly eroding. The economic downturn is producing an army of unemployed workers and this has affected peasants all across China. As economic situation worsens, the Chinese government’s credibility will rapidly dissipate. The swamp will be drained, if you will, leaving bare the underlying frustrations, grievances and contempt for the CCP. Recognizing that they have nothing to lose, people will become bolder and bolder in publicly expressing their dissatisfaction. Charter 08 will become the focal point for the people’s demands for reform. The viable opposition and the crisis will come together to challenge 60 years of corruption, repression and disregard of all humanity, which the CCP has delivered to the Chinese people. So two of the conditions for peaceful transition to democracy are now forming, as we speak. The third one – the stage is now set for America and the Western democracies to provide a third condition: international support. The timing is right because the situation is still manageable. Assertive engagement with China can push the government to engage in constructive dialogue with the opposition, a dialogue that will create the climate for peaceful and orderly democratic reform. Assertive American engagement with the Chinese government at this time can induce the Chinese government to realize that the tide of history is going against them and now is the time to strike a bargain. Without a forceful and a consistent message from America now for the Chinese government to enter a dialogue with the opposition, the Chinese government will be lulled into a false sense of security that it can delay the inevitable, just as it did in 1989; that just as, in 1989, it can intimidate and cross the opposition into submission. This could and probably will set in motion cataclysmic confrontations of unpredictable proportions. At the very least, America will have lost another opportunity to tip the scales towards democracy in China. America will lose a vital opportunity to eliminate the biggest challenge to its own security and for freedom of a fully one-quarter of the world’s population. I must add at this time that America has little to lose and much to gain by assertively and consistently engaging China on the subject of democratic reform. Many argue that China will react by pulling the plug on their considerable holdings of U.S. debt. This is self-imposed fear. The Chinese government knows this would be suicide for them. China indeed will raise the volume and issue all sorts of threats privately and even publicly. But I urge everyone to consider what happened earlier this year – actually earlier last – earlier last year I think, but I urge – when the European Parliament was about to award the Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought to the Chinese Activist, Hu Jia. The Chinese government made forceful and even belligerent threats to the EP. Much to their credit, the European Parliament went ahead and awarded the prize to Hu Jia. China did nothing more than issue a pro forma protest. At this critical moment America cannot be driven by self imposed fears. The conditions for a peaceful transition to democracy are coming into play. The signers of Charter 08 are giving America and the world a wake-up call. We cannot afford to miss that call. We must engage with the democratic forces already at work in China. I believe today more than ever that a visionary part of the U.S. engagement policy with China is to openly and systematically engage with the Chinese democratic forces, the viable opposition, and to nurture its growth. We must send a clear and consistent message to the Chinese government that the time for constitutional reform has come. We must engage our democratic partners around the world to give China the same message. Specifically, I strongly urge all of you involved in legislation to exercise this great tool of freedom to introduce resolutions that give voice to our commitment to freedom. I applaud the Senate resolution, introduced by Senators Casey and Brownback, supporting Charter 08, calling for the release of Liu Xiaobo and urging democratic reforms in China. I congratulate Congressman McCotter for drafting a similar resolution for the House. Furthermore, we must become proactive in our support of democracy. By proaction (ph) I mean we should take actions that put the Chinese government on the defensive in a way that forces them to confront the fact that they are on the wrong side of history. And, and the same time gives hope to the democratic forces inside of China. I will give you this example of proactive policy. I call it the “doctrine of reciprocity.” When U.S. government officials travel to China their movements, their contacts, and their communications are tightly controlled. If officials give a speech, it is not typically broadcast to the Chinese people. Congressman Chris Smith reported that on his last trip to China, he could not access his own website on the Internet. Even President Obama’s inauguration speech was edited before it was published in China. Virtually all American media are blocked in China, but here in the United States China can freely broadcast. In fact, it is estimated that over 90 percent of the Chinese-language media in the U.S. are Chinese government-controlled. The Chinese government uses such freedom to extend its influence with Chinese communities in the United States. I firmly believe that it is not too late to summon our better angels and to stand on the right side of history. We must apply a much more strategic yardstick to determine the right policies toward the Chinese government. We must realize that at the most fundamental level, we are engaging in a struggle between two completely different views of humanity. One says man is just a serf of the state with no right. The other states that human beings have rights and it is the purpose of the state to protect them. In this regard we must strive to restore human rights to its rightful place as the very fabric that binds our foreign policy together. This will not earn the retribution of the Chinese government but respect and the realization that it is dealing with people of strength and character. This is what the Chinese government fears the most. This more than anything else will put America on equal footing in its negotiations on other bilateral issues and restore America's standing in the world. To do so will not only make the historical leap toward world peace but it will also reaffirm America’s moral standing in the world. It will reaffirm that the lifeblood of America is not in what it consumes but in what it believes. It will tell the world once again that America’s commitment to freedom and democracy is not a costume that it wears only on special occasions but the very foundation of its existence. Through this we will ensure that the American model of the freedom, justice, of a government of the people, by the people and for the people will be model we pass on to our children. Thank you very much. (Applause.) MS. SCHOLTE: Thank you. MR. YANG: Do you have any questions? Q: Dr. Yang, when you were detained, I want to commend your wife and daughters – I no longer work there, but at the time the most effective lobbyists that you had were your daughters. And they were very small at that time. Now I’m sure they’re in high school or college, but I just want you to know that they touched a lot of hearts. And as they went from office to office campaigning for you, I think it was very difficult for somebody to resist the signing a petition or campaigning on your behalf. It’s that very human touch that I think is so often lost. When we’re talking about economics having precedence over human rights conditions, it becomes a theory more than – or something that becomes more abstract. And I think in terms of the way campaigns are driven, one of the things that is really lacking now is that very human touch. We don’t hear from the families of those who are detained. We don’t see the impact of the policies of China on the people in the countryside, unless you look at YouTube and you’ll see people’s video coming from their cameras about what is happening. What is your idea for people like Suzanne and the groups that are working in the advocacy of having a more human-based impact on the Chinese people? Since Charter 08 comes from the soul of China – it’s not something being imposed from the outside – I think that it would really be helpful, if I’m looking at this in terms of communication strategy, as you said, to counteract the official spokespeople from China to really dwell upon the impact, especially during these difficult economic times. So many people going home now. In Guangzhou there’s more flights – international flights going in because the factories are shutting down, and there’s millions of people going back to destitute situations in their villages. What is your idea of how to make this a more human process and show the impact of communism and tyranny on the ordinary Chinese people so that it can be better understood here? MR. YANG: Thank you for your question. First of all, I want to thank you and any of you who were involved with my case when I was in prison. So I think it’s not too late to thank you. And my case is a vivid example, evidence to show that international support, especially the support of the United States, works. It may not work in the way or affects at the time when we want it, but it works. Otherwise, you know, without international support, I would be sentenced much longer, to begin with, so for that – you know, the families of the prisoners to show up here, to show the human part of the effort, is kind of difficult because there are so many political prisoners in China – to say the least, thousands of them – and only a few of them have a family member in the West, in the United States. And today with me is Ti-Anna Wang – Ti-Anna, yeah. Ti-Anna is the daughter of Dr. Wang Bing-zhang. Wang Bing-zhang is the founder of the Overseas Chinese Democracy Movement. He went back in 2002 and he was kidnapped by the Chinese security official from Vietnam in 2002 and detained for quite a long time without trial. And at last he was sentenced to life in prison, so a life sentence. So he is still sitting in – languishing in prison in China. And his brother just had a meeting with her father yesterday. Do you want to say a few words? Just follow up. TI-ANNA WANG: Right here? MR. YANG: Yeah, here, please. (Applause.) MS. WANG: Well, I haven’t spoken to my brother in detail yet. I just called him really quickly, and when I called him he was in a night market – well, shopping around and bargaining for prices, and I said, what are you – what are you doing? And he said – he said – he didn’t have that much time to talk to me but he said that it’s cold and winter in Guangzhou right now and that my father’s clothing was inadequate, so he had to go and shop for clothing – shoes and blankets and just some outerwear so that he can bring back to the prison. That’s the only thing that I have to say right now because I haven’t heard from him after that. So I’ll call him tonight and ask for a more detailed report on how my father’s doing. (Applause.) MR. YANG: And there are so many cases in China. The prisoners have no family members here to represent them, so it’s really difficult to make their cases public – known to the general public here. And so that’s the most difficult work we are doing. So really we just pick up the most visible one as a special effort to help and to try to get them released as a breakthrough for the overall political change in China. And another case is Gao Zhisheng who was kidnapped in 2007 and brutally tortured, and recently we just got a report from his family. So – (unintelligible) – do you want to make a brief report about that? MS. : Sure. Well, as many of you know, Gao Zhisheng, along with Hu Jia, was one of the frontrunners to win the Nobel Peace Prize last year. He’s one of China’s best-known human rights lawyers, a leader in the democracy community. He is a Christian. He has defended just about every type of disenfranchised and persecuted group there is in China. Several years ago when he began defending Falun Gong and writing letters to the Chinese government calling for an end to the persecution of Falun Gong, he really attracted the ire of the Chinese leadership. They shut down his legal practice. They began harassing his family. He was put under house arrest when he wasn’t in detention. He was detained for some time in 2007 and brutally, brutally tortured – electric shock, batons – for hours on end for 50 days. He was threatened that if he ever made this information public that he would be killed. In early February he was disappeared again. His friends and family feared the worst for him and released the account that he had written of his torture in 2007. And I understand China Aid has published a transcript of that, a translation of that account, and I recommend that everyone here take the time to read it. It’s absolutely heart-wrenching stuff. And I think since he’s been disappeared and since they’ve already tortured him so badly in the past and they’ve threatened to kill him in the past, I hope that all of the congressional staffers and congressmen present here today can do whatever you can to bring pressure to bear on the Chinese government to release him and secure his safety. (Applause.) MR. YANG: Thank you. Now, it is not that the Chinese people do not understand the nature of the communist regime. It is the fear factor that works in China. The fear is something the regime has put tremendous effort to create in China. In this country, during the good time or bad time, especially during the bad time, the government tried to make sure everybody is content. That’s the best they can do. But China is different. They don’t care about whether people are content. They care about whether people fear. So it’s not that the Chinese people do not understand it; it’s the fear effect works, especially the older generation who had experienced many periods of communist rule. They understand very well. So few people actually stood up, comparing with the whole population, because, you know, they risk their lives, risk imprisonment, being arrested. So that’s something we have to do about because we need our support. You know, our support can minimize the risk and price they have to pay. When the price continues to grow, then more and more people will stand up against the communist regime. So the international support is not only humanitarian, but also political in this sense. Okay, question? Q: Thank you for a very eloquent speech, and I think everyone here appreciated that. It was very, very good. While stated clearly in your speech, I would like to ask you how you would advocate – what is in it for the American public? What is in their interest to see that China orderly reform or undergo a peaceful transition to a democratic state? It is great that we advocate to the U.S. government to put forth policies between the U.S. and China relations and so forth, but how do you make it – how do you advocate to the general American public? MR. YANG: Yeah, that’s the beauty of a democracy; we have to work with people, right, and the bottom up, and we engage a lot of effort to do this. I myself go to various campuses to give speeches like this, and also we have a website in English – we have a publication. But still, many, many dissidents living in this country are marginalized because they don’t speak the language. So not only the dissidents in China are marginalized because of the government’s policy. They’ve driven them to the periphery of the society, but even the dissidents here are living in a hard situation, which I think we should support them. Among them are many, many thoughtful, sensible thinkers and practitioners of human rights. They can contribute a great lot to the general public of this country, but because they have a language barrier, they have all kinds of difficulty for their own lives. They cannot develop fully their potential, but we try to set up a think tank kind of thing to have our writings be published and distributed as wide as possible to engage in the communication with the people in this country. Thank you for your question. Yes? Q: Thank you very much, Doctor, and a good presentation. And I want to ask a question about the situation of the democratic movement here in America, because this past 20 years many, many, many Chinese – (inaudible, off mike) – groups who are active and reactive. But some of them are just – (inaudible, off mike). So how many groups are working in America or outside of China? MR. YANG: Okay, a very good question, but usually the good questions aren’t difficult to answer. Yes, we are fractured, to be honest, and we have many groups here. I don’t even know how many groups. And there are a lot of reasons for this. Number one, we all grew up in the communist culture, which advocated for struggle against each other and not tolerate different opinions, ideas. So we all grew up in this culture and are still influenced by it. Number two, the dissidents usually have a very strong personality. That is why they got into trouble in the first place. (Laughter.) Right? And, you know, usually they don’t know – they are not very good at cooperating. Number three is resources, which I just talked about in answering the previous question. There is a lot, a lot of dissidents in this country who do not speak English who want to do something, but we have very limited resources. People try to think of a way to – you know, I don’t usually fight for the resources, but, you know, compete for resources. And of course the fourth factor is the infiltration from the government. We have to assume that it’s happening every day to divide the people. All right, the positive side is although people have different names, groups, we do have a concerted effort. I’ll give you an example. We have an association which is not high-profile. We don’t make it public. But 11 organizations have a conference – teleconference once a month or even more – more frequently – to discuss the current issues, exchange ideas, and to come up with a concerted effort. So no matter what organization a dissident belongs to I consider as one of us. So we do have some unified effort going on, but still we have to overcome the fracture, which is really counterproductive to our work. So that’s the major problem we have to face. And a lot of people put their heads together trying to find a solution for that. I hope we can do better. Q: Looking at the economic data coming out of Japan, economic data here in the United States, with the very, very rapid shutdown of economies, do you believe it’s possible that the Chinese economy will be essentially in a depression within six, 12, 18 months? And are you and the forces of freedom and democracy prepared to take advantage of any dislocations that may occur in a nation of over a billion people who are making progress? MR. YANG: Yeah, as a matter of fact, I was on their VOA TV program this morning before I came here. The topic was about employment in China. The rate of unemployment in China is about 20, to say the least. And we have a big population which is workforce that are employed. That alone causes a crisis, so to speak, to the Chinese government. Of course, the people will have hardship themselves as well. And of course as opposition we should take advantage of the crisis. We don’t want crisis. We don’t create crisis. But the crisis comes anyway because the regime is not a good regime. If it doesn’t create a crisis, it’s a good regime, right? So crisis comes anyway, so of course, you know, the opposition will seize upon the opportunity to push for the political change in this year. But it’s really difficult to predict whether China’s economy will collapse or not because the Chinese government has a very – (unintelligible) – to prevent – even prevent a plan to bankrupt, you know, with their executive order. So it’s really difficult to predict. But anyway, there are going to be some kind of crisis in China in the year to come, so as activists in the movement, we have to think seriously about how to take advantage of it. And the Charter 08 comes at the right time, and this is the moment that we need the international support the most, and it seems that – I don’t want to speculate much from what Hillary Clinton said. It’s a critical moment. The moment we need most, I see the withdrawal. That’s particularly frustrating. Thank you for your questions. (Applause.) MS. SCHOLTE: Your Web site, Initiatives for China – MR. YANG: Yeah. MS. SCHOLTE: – what’s the Web site? MR. YANG: Yeah, www.initiativesforchina.org. It sounds like a commercial. MS. SCHOLTE: That was terrific. Thank you so much. MR. YANG: Thank you very much. MS. SCHOLTE: Thank you all for joining us. (Applause.) Our next forum is tentatively scheduled for March 20th, and we are confirmed for May lst we’re going to be having a forum – we do this every year during North Korea Freedom Week with defectors that have escaped from North Korea. So mark those on your calendar, and if you’re on our email list, you’ll automatically get notification for that, and if you’re not, talk to Henry and make sure you get on our email list. So, thank you all for being here. (Applause.) (END) |
||||||||
